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spic-ole
Coffee
Joined: 10 Oct 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: UC Calecia
  
Votes: 1
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 Posted: 26 Jun 2003 08:21 PM Post subject: |
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And I'm sure he will be let in because he was the first 40-40 player. But don't you think that, if betting hurts the integrity of the game, then steroid use does, too? Especially, when it comes to homerun records?[/quote]
Dude, nothing that happens off the field should matter. Players should be allowed to do whatever they want to do to themselves in order to play better. It's makes the games more interesting. If they want to f' themselves up in the process, let them. |
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verbal
Cole
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 2569
Location: C-Town
Votes: 9
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2003 10:01 PM Post subject: |
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| bemisnorris wrote: | | verbal wrote: | | bemisnorris wrote: | | Hey, Rose never betted on his team to lose, and baseball bets are placed only on winners/losers, not point spreads, so it didn't affect your wagers. |
Really? How do you know? Did you see his parlays? You're taking the side and word from a man who has denied for 14 years that he didn't bet on baseball. |
It is generally accepted (even by MLB) that Rose never bet against the Reds. In John Dowd's investigation, he found no evidence that Rose ever bet against his own team, although he found plenty of evidence that he did bet in favor of his team.
| verbal wrote: | | Hey teams want to win every game but if you know anything about baseball, MLB, in this case you would know that managers often leave their pitcher an extra inning or two. Pitchers like to struggle in the 6th, but managers won't take them out until the 7th and 8th if possible. Why, well if you actually watch a game or two instead of SportCenter you would know that manager have to manage a 162 game season. If he tends to bring in his bullpen to early he will tire them out and he will have no healthy arms at the end of the season or in the playoffs. So placing a bet on your own team can affect the outcome of the game. Instead of managing the game like how you always do (162 game season) you bring in the relieve and win the game at all cost. Thus, you play individual games and not a season. If you start playing too many individual games you ruin your season. That's pretty fucked up for a manager to do that. Win only so he could win. Pretty greedy and it hurts the game. Not that I care. |
If you know anything about baseball, you know that each team has enough relievers, so managers can bring in a reliever in the 6th inning and still have fresh arms for the next few games. Also, sometimes you need to take a starter out earlier just to save his arm. If you know anything about baseball, you know that the number of pitches the pitcher has thrown is more important than the number of innings he's pitched, in determining whether or not to pull him out when he's in trouble.
| verbal wrote: | | Have you heard of the Run Line? Do your homework. |
D'oh! My bad. |
I see you like to plagiarize. Nice. Really a manager can bring in a reliever in the 6th, wow. So your saying that the Red Sox have enough relievers. Interesting. Anyway, back to the point on hand thats why a manager will let the stuggling pitcher keep on throwing until he reaches his max usually 95-110 pitches. If your starting 5 man rotations sucks do you think that the relievers will be fresh all year long. You might not think ONE extra inning matters, but in a long 162 game season those innings add up. A lot of those relievers ain't young. If they are they tend to throw nothing but heat. Plus, if you take out a pitcher too early it fucks up your entire rotation. You seem like a bright fellow. A team has a closer, but right before him you have a set up man. Before him you just have arms just to get you buy. Throw in a guy in the 5th and you have guys that are used to throw for no more than 2/3 of inning pitching almost 2 innings. Like Smokey said, "your fucking up the rotation."
Still you missed the my argument how Pete changed the outcome of the game because of his wagers. His sole purpose to win at all cost was not for the team, but for his parlay. If that's ok with you then fine with me.
And C'mon he didn't bet on his team to lose. Man, you ate too many WWF Superstar ice cream bars when you were a kid. Shit, he had to call a bookie right? Well, he places call and says no action for me today on the Reds. I wonder why? Don't you think that would send a message to the bookie to place heavy on the opposing team that day. You give me some and I'll give you some. |
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chainsmokinmonkey
Peanut Salesman
Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 967
Location: unemployment
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2003 10:02 PM Post subject: |
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| spic-ole wrote: | | Dude, nothing that happens off the field should matter. Players should be allowed to do whatever they want to do to themselves in order to play better. It's makes the games more interesting. If they want to f' themselves up in the process, let them. |
that's why ty cobb is in the hall of fame. |
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bemisnorris
Cole
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 2096
Location: Not Here
Votes: 1
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2003 07:49 AM Post subject: |
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| verbal wrote: | | I see you like to plagiarize. Nice. |
What? 
| verbal wrote: | | His sole purpose to win at all cost was not for the team, but for his parlay. |
So, you're saying that Rose became a manager just to win games for his wagers? Now, you're starting to make sense.
| verbal wrote: | | Shit, he had to call a bookie right? Well, he places call and says no action for me today on the Reds. I wonder why? Don't you think that would send a message to the bookie to place heavy on the opposing team that day. You give me some and I'll give you some. |
I see that you like to paraphrase.  |
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verbal
Cole
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 2569
Location: C-Town
Votes: 9
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2003 12:39 PM Post subject: |
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| bemisnorris wrote: | | verbal wrote: | | I see you like to plagiarize. Nice. |
What?
| verbal wrote: | | His sole purpose to win at all cost was not for the team, but for his parlay. |
So, you're saying that Rose became a manager just to win games for his wagers? Now, you're starting to make sense.
| verbal wrote: | | Shit, he had to call a bookie right? Well, he places call and says no action for me today on the Reds. I wonder why? Don't you think that would send a message to the bookie to place heavy on the opposing team that day. You give me some and I'll give you some. |
I see that you like to paraphrase. |
Look, I never said that Pete started managing because he wanted to win his parlays. Charlie Hustle was one on my favorite players. He always played hard. He left every thing on the field. He was a competitor (All-Star game). Then because he loved the game so much he started managing. He was a player manager. Often he came in to pinch hit. Then, and I don't at what time in his life did he start gambling. I don't know, but what I do know is that he changed his style of managing. Yes, he wanted to win all games, but as a manager sometimes you know you are going to lose. Do you want to lose? No, but your not going to kill your bull pen in order to win one game. You manage a 162 games season something that your ignoring.
Also late in the season when the team is out of contention teams like to bring up players. If he Reds are 20 games out and the GM calls up his farm players will Pete play and develop this players. For the most part yes, but I bet he sat them down when he had some action on his team. So not only is he hurting the intergrity of the game, but also the future of his team. But hey he only bet on his team. |
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chainsmokinmonkey
Peanut Salesman
Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 967
Location: unemployment
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2003 01:36 PM Post subject: |
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| verbal wrote: | | So not only is he hurting the intergrity of the game, but also the future of his team. But hey he only bet on his team. |
there's integrity left in pro sports? that's why shaq, kobe, and god forbid jordan get or got all the calls in their favor? because there's integrity in pro sports. that's why network tv always "roots" for the yankees to get to the world series? because there's integrity in pro sports. that's why they still let mike tyson fight? because there's integrity in pro sports. that's why they put venus and serena williams on opposite sides of the draw? because there's integrity in pro sports. that's why bud selig wants to get rid of the twins and expos, but not his brewers? because there's integrity in pro sports. that's why we see coporate sponsorship on our favorite stadiums? because there's integrity in pro sports. that's why we have players threatening to strike if they don't get paid more? because there's integrity in pro sports. that's why the 1919 "blacksox" threw the world series? because there's integrity in pro sports. you seem to forget something. the minute you play a sport that you "love" for money, all integrity has been lost. sports are made to be a game, and games are made to be fun. thank you tom selleck in mr. baseball. the minute you start getting paid, it stops being fun and starts being a job. you grow to hate your salary and it's never enough. integrity went out the window long befor pete rose even placed a bet. |
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bemisnorris
Cole
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 2096
Location: Not Here
Votes: 1
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2003 02:49 PM Post subject: |
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| verbal wrote: | Look, I never said that Pete started managing because he wanted to win his parlays. Charlie Hustle was one on my favorite players. He always played hard. He left every thing on the field. He was a competitor (All-Star game). Then because he loved the game so much he started managing. He was a player manager. Often he came in to pinch hit. Then, and I don't at what time in his life did he start gambling. I don't know, but what I do know is that he changed his style of managing. Yes, he wanted to win all games, but as a manager sometimes you know you are going to lose. Do you want to lose? No, but your not going to kill your bull pen in order to win one game. You manage a 162 games season something that your ignoring.
Also late in the season when the team is out of contention teams like to bring up players. If he Reds are 20 games out and the GM calls up his farm players will Pete play and develop this players. For the most part yes, but I bet he sat them down when he had some action on his team. So not only is he hurting the intergrity of the game, but also the future of his team. But hey he only bet on his team. |
Honestly, those are very valid points.
I'm a Pete Rose fan, but I never said that he should be in the Hall of Fame. Rule 21(d) (Yes, I did my homework.) says that any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, that bets any amount of money on a game in which he's connected will be permanently ineligible. (I'm paraphrasing, of course.) That means that Pete Rose is permanently ineligible to be employed by Major League Baseball.
But it wasn't until 1990 (the year after the investigation into Rose's gambling began) that the Hall of Fame added a clause to its eligibility rules stating that players who were on baseball's ineligible list could not be considered as candidates. (That was plagiarized, I admit.) Which is why I said that if Jose Canseco can be elected to the Hall after being found to use steroids, then Pete Rose should be allowed to be in the Hall. Like I said earlier, if betting hurts the integrity of the game, then steroid use does, too. Especially, when it comes to homerun records. But since, being found guilty of steroid use doesn't mean lifetime ineligibility, Canseco will go in as the only 40-40 major leaguer, and Pete Rose probably won't go in as the all-time hits leader. |
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verbal
Cole
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 2569
Location: C-Town
Votes: 9
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2003 09:02 PM Post subject: |
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| bemisnorris wrote: | | verbal wrote: | Look, I never said that Pete started managing because he wanted to win his parlays. Charlie Hustle was one on my favorite players. He always played hard. He left every thing on the field. He was a competitor (All-Star game). Then because he loved the game so much he started managing. He was a player manager. Often he came in to pinch hit. Then, and I don't at what time in his life did he start gambling. I don't know, but what I do know is that he changed his style of managing. Yes, he wanted to win all games, but as a manager sometimes you know you are going to lose. Do you want to lose? No, but your not going to kill your bull pen in order to win one game. You manage a 162 games season something that your ignoring.
Also late in the season when the team is out of contention teams like to bring up players. If he Reds are 20 games out and the GM calls up his farm players will Pete play and develop this players. For the most part yes, but I bet he sat them down when he had some action on his team. So not only is he hurting the intergrity of the game, but also the future of his team. But hey he only bet on his team. |
Honestly, those are very valid points.
I'm a Pete Rose fan, but I never said that he should be in the Hall of Fame. Rule 21(d) (Yes, I did my homework.) says that any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, that bets any amount of money on a game in which he's connected will be permanently ineligible. (I'm paraphrasing, of course.) That means that Pete Rose is permanently ineligible to be employed by Major League Baseball.
But it wasn't until 1990 (the year after the investigation into Rose's gambling began) that the Hall of Fame added a clause to its eligibility rules stating that players who were on baseball's ineligible list could not be considered as candidates. (That was plagiarized, I admit.) Which is why I said that if Jose Canseco can be elected to the Hall after being found to use steroids, then Pete Rose should be allowed to be in the Hall. Like I said earlier, if betting hurts the integrity of the game, then steroid use does, too. Especially, when it comes to homerun records. But since, being found guilty of steroid use doesn't mean lifetime ineligibility, Canseco will go in as the only 40-40 major leaguer, and Pete Rose probably won't go in as the all-time hits leader. |
Rose is an idiot. All he had to do was admit to betting and he would have been in the Hall by now. Instead he looks like freakin OJ. America loves the tragic hero. Human flaws. People are receptive to recovering alcoholics even though they have no clue that the drunk ruin his family, hit his wife and kids, lost his job and his house, but all is ok because he is fighting this terrible disease. Look at actors they oppose the war, but give a standing O when Polanski wins an Oscar. The man rapped a little girl and fled the country, but people will still suck his dick. Rose should had taken it like a man and moved on.
As for Canseco another idiot and prick. Don't get me wrong 40-40 is awesome especially when you're the first player to ever do it, but I don't think he is HOF material. Sure he could hit Hr's, but that's it. His batting average was weak. He had no defense though one could say he used his head out in the outfield. |
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verbal
Cole
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 2569
Location: C-Town
Votes: 9
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2003 09:28 PM Post subject: |
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| you seem to forget something. the minute you play a sport that you "love" for money, all integrity has been lost. sports are made to be a game, and games are made to be fun. |
What's getting paid have to do with integrity? You can still do both. You play by the rules, you work hard, and you don't cheat. That's integrity. What happens off the field is besides the point.
The NBA is a horrible league. Too many thugs with too much cash. They all know that the season sucks and they only start playing in the playoffs. Look at R.Horry. Still, there are high price players that play hard regardless if the league wants a certain matchup. T.Duncam, K.G., Kobe, Tracy, and those are the superstars. I hate the fact that the league pushes certain teams and doesn't call traveling, but I like sports and I will continue to watch the finals. Though I prefer March Madness. If I really cared about all the right calls and fundamentals then I would watch the WNBA, and trust me I will never watch that crap.
A lot of players still respect the history of the game. Roger Clemens just won 300 games and before each start he goes out and kisses/rubs Babe Ruth's plaque out in center field. So you're saying that because Roger Clemens gets paid he has no integrity? Is it his fault that the game he is good at he can make a profitable living off. Does he make the salaries? Does he tell people to go to games and purchase $1500 tickets. That's how much tickets were going for when he picthed against the Cubs.
Yes there are players like Cansecon, Bell, who are ass holes and only play for the money. I hate players like E.James (colts) who said every time he crosses the goal line all he thinks about are dollar signs. Do players play way too many years at the end of the career for just money. Yes, but I still believe there are some good players out there.
A.Rod left the Mariners to play in a last place team. Obviously he left for the money, but wouldn't you. 252 million in 10 years. Just tell me right now that you would have stayed with the Mariners. That's right you would have taken the cash. What did A.Rod do after he got that money, he only put up MVP numbers. They gave it to Tejada, but A.Rods numbers were better. So he has no integrity for the game because he plays for cash. I say he plays 110%, if he didn't his numbers would show.
Look at Tony Gwynn. He could have left and received the big pay check, but he didn't. Look at Cal Ripken. Are you saying that Lou Gerrigh had no integrity. What about Ronnie Lott. Are you willing to go up to him and say that he has no integrity for the game? Hey Ronnie you have no integrity because you play for money. Yeah fuckin right. This man decided to amputate his pinky in order to play the remainder of the season.
Games are made to be fun, but more importantly they are made for competition. In games you have winners and losers. One team wins the championship and all other teams are losers. That simple. |
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revramrod
IVC Dropout
Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 1410
Location: Calecia.com
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| Posted: 01 Jul 2003 10:25 PM Post subject: |
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You filthy motherfuckers!!!
Some of you ignore the majority of the threads in the forums, or make a habit of firing off non sequiturs when you do get around to posting in them, and here you are, writing essays and shit about sports.
Bastards. |
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