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RandR
Job Training
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 406
Location: CLX
  
Votes: 4
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 Posted: 13 Aug 2008 06:46 PM Post subject: |
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| elchrist wrote: | | RandR wrote: | | Some folks like shutting the vents off in rooms they don't use much, but that can backfire. If air doesn't flow through your AC's duct system properly it will run less efficiently. |
Apart from backfiring, does it save you money on a month to month basis? |
Shutting off the certain vents in lesser used rooms backfires in the sense that it makes the AC less efficient. According to the fun-gineers at Proctor Engineering, a firm contracted by the IID to analyze field data taken by certified techs from various AC companies, shutting off air vents increases static pressure in the duct system which results in an AC that is not running at maximum efficiency. If that doesn't make a lot of sense to you, don't feel bad, I can't do much more than repeat their explanation.
I recognize sometimes you don't have a choice. A room that gets heavy use feels too hot while another feels OK but is rarely used. The cheapest thing to do is shut off the vent in the unused room (the more effective solution is redirecting air by having dampers installed at various points of the duct system and perhaps installing a larger duct for the room that feels too hot -- if necessary), but you will pay a higher electric bill if you do this. Some people just leave all vents open and lower the thermostat setting so the warmer room feels more comfortable, but of course that raises the bill as well.
| elchrist wrote: | Another question: What's the best setting for your thermostat?
I've been told that it's best to leave a constant degree (eg - 7 for the entire day as the AC will run more efficiently. |
78 is what I've always heard too. That is best for standard to low efficiency AC's. Based on personal experience, 77 at night (I prefer a cooler home when I sleep, personally) doesn't result in a huge electric bill.
You should only set your thermostat at a constant temperature if you have a high efficiency (14 seer or higher) AC. The more those AC's run, the more money they save -- so having the thermostat set at 76 all day is actually a good thing.
If you have a standard or low efficiency AC, then it's best to program your thermostat to an 82 degree setting when you are not home and a 78 degree setting when you are away. This is perfect for nine to five yuppies because they can program the thermostat to bring the home to 78 degress starting at 4 PM, and by the time they get home they would never know the house was ever warm. Someone is always home at my place, so it's fans on in pretty much every room, pretty much all day, for months. |
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RandR
Job Training
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 406
Location: CLX
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 06:54 PM Post subject: Re: How much was your IID bill last month? |
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| elchrist wrote: | Mine was a little over $200 bones.
I was dreading this billing period since last year it was close to $250. The interesting thing is that I used more electricity this past billing cycle than I did 12 months ago. I haven't analyzed the two bills, but I'm guessing the price of power went down.
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It's been a pretty mild summer, with the exception of a few weeks in June. On monday I walked in to one of the AC parts suppliers to buy a few dampers we were going to use the next morning. I was alone in there, it was 3 PM and I spent 25 bucks. The kid at the counter said it was their first sale of the day. That ain't normal for August, y'all. |
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verbal
Cole
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 2555
Location: C-Town
Votes: 9
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 11:01 AM Post subject: |
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| RandR wrote: | | I recognize sometimes you don't have a choice. A room that gets heavy use feels too hot while another feels OK but is rarely used. The cheapest thing to do is shut off the vent in the unused room (the more effective solution is redirecting air by having dampers installed at various points of the duct system and perhaps installing a larger duct for the room that feels too hot -- if necessary) |
Thanks for the input, but what in the hell is a damper? Can anyone install it? What's the going rate?
And when you say less efficient, does that necessarily mean a higher electric bill? If so, by how much? My car runs less efficient on 87 octane than it would with 91 octane, but I am saving 30-40 cents a gallon. |
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RandR
Job Training
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 406
Location: CLX
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 11:19 AM Post subject: |
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| verbal wrote: | | RandR wrote: | | I recognize sometimes you don't have a choice. A room that gets heavy use feels too hot while another feels OK but is rarely used. The cheapest thing to do is shut off the vent in the unused room (the more effective solution is redirecting air by having dampers installed at various points of the duct system and perhaps installing a larger duct for the room that feels too hot -- if necessary) |
Thanks for the input, but what in the hell is a damper? Can anyone install it? What's the going rate?
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A damper is a metal disc with a handle assembly installed wherever a duct connects to the duct system. The handle is used to position that disc in order to allow more or less air to flow through the duct. If you wanted no air to flow through a certain duct, then you you would position the disc accordingly and effectively shut that duct off.
To be honest, it is actually not hard to install a damper, but it would probably take a technician to do it since per damper it would involve probably about a half hour in the attic.
Pricing on this service varies. Some companies have equipment to test air balance, so once they install dampers they can make sure each air supply has the right amount of airflow. This is expensive, probably starting at $600 to $800 and rising depending on how badly out of balance a home's system is (ie how much work it is going to take to make sure air is distributed throughout the home evenly). Companies that lack this equipment will adjust damper settings depending on the home owner's feedback. These is cheaper -- unless that company wants to charge for every time they have to go back. Getting a guarantee from one of these companies would be important. |
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RandR
Job Training
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 406
Location: CLX
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 11:41 AM Post subject: |
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| verbal wrote: | | RandR wrote: | | I recognize sometimes you don't have a choice. A room that gets heavy use feels too hot while another feels OK but is rarely used. The cheapest thing to do is shut off the vent in the unused room (the more effective solution is redirecting air by having dampers installed at various points of the duct system and perhaps installing a larger duct for the room that feels too hot -- if necessary) |
And when you say less efficient, does that necessarily mean a higher electric bill? If so, by how much? My car runs less efficient on 87 octane than it would with 91 octane, but I am saving 30-40 cents a gallon. |
Yup, whenever you hear talk of an AC that is not running efficiently (which could be brought on by several issues like an old compressor, low freon pressures, lack of maintenance, poor air flow, dirty air filter, etc) it always translates to a higher energy bill. With a car you have options when it comes to energy costs. Like you said, it makes sense to choose a less efficient fuel (87) because it is so much cheaper than the better fuel (91). But you don't have that option when it comes to electricity here in IV. So your only option to save money is to have your AC -- your home's biggest consumer of energy -- running as efficiently as possible.
It's hard to tell how much energy is being wasted by an inefficient AC because there are numerous variables. It is definitely worth it to have your home's AC serviced every year. Companies charge 50 to 85 bucks, roughly, and you will certainly make that up through energy savings over the course of a year. Not to mention the fact that you establish a relationship with a company this way and could get a slight break on pricing for repairs. "You guys came out to service my AC a few months ago and it's not working ...."
I've upgraded several AC's to high efficiency units (14 seer or higher), and it's not uncommon for me to hear that people are saving 50 to 65 percent on their electric bill. |
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verbal
Cole
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 2555
Location: C-Town
Votes: 9
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 12:37 PM Post subject: |
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| RandR wrote: | | I've upgraded several AC's to high efficiency units (14 seer or higher), and it's not uncommon for me to hear that people are saving 50 to 65 percent on their electric bill. |
Is an upgrade a change of compressor or the whole unit? What's a good deal on a high efficiency unit (14 or higher) with install? This is to take into consideration the dampers prices of 600-800 or so.
As far as air filters, is there a need to buy the super deluxe one I've seen at the stores? I know in cars they can add a couple of horsepower and/or better mileage. I guess, will that extra buck or two make my AC more efficient or just clean my air better? |
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desertlow
Cholo Nako
Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Posts: 5
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 01:31 PM Post subject: Electirc Bill |
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| Mine was $357 last month. This month's is $337.0 |
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RandR
Job Training
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 406
Location: CLX
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 02:52 PM Post subject: |
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| verbal wrote: | | RandR wrote: | | I've upgraded several AC's to high efficiency units (14 seer or higher), and it's not uncommon for me to hear that people are saving 50 to 65 percent on their electric bill. |
Is an upgrade a change of compressor or the whole unit? What's a good deal on a high efficiency unit (14 or higher) with install? This is to take into consideration the dampers prices of 600-800 or so.
As far as air filters, is there a need to buy the super deluxe one I've seen at the stores? I know in cars they can add a couple of horsepower and/or better mileage. I guess, will that extra buck or two make my AC more efficient or just clean my air better? |
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RandR
Job Training
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 406
Location: CLX
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 03:32 PM Post subject: |
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| RandR wrote: | | verbal wrote: | | RandR wrote: | | I've upgraded several AC's to high efficiency units (14 seer or higher), and it's not uncommon for me to hear that people are saving 50 to 65 percent on their electric bill. |
Is an upgrade a change of compressor or the whole unit? What's a good deal on a high efficiency unit (14 or higher) with install? This is to take into consideration the dampers prices of 600-800 or so. |
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Oops. Pushed submit without writing anything. These are damn good questions by the way. I always like when people who call me for service are informed or at least ask questions, because it makes the whole process smoother.
You'll have to forgive me for slipping into contractor talk -- which I've been trying to avoid -- when I mentioned "upgrades". People don't like hearing, "It's time to replace your AC," because it has negative connotations. Telling someone, "Now is a good time to upgrade your system," usually garners a better response. Anyway, when I said upgrade I meant: replace a current, older AC with a new, high efficiency AC.
High efficiency AC's (14 seer or higher) are pricey for several reasons: they have two stage cooling systems, they also have smaller compressors but more copper (expensive!!!) condenser coil tubing to help those compressors work (the condenser coil is a large piece of coiled copper tubing that wraps around the compressor. This coil usually has small tin fins running through it and is also called the outdoor coil), to top it all off they often feature control systems that are more sophisticated than standard AC's.
Out the door, an installed AC with air balancing service can cost anywhere between 7 and 14 thousand dollars. If you want this done for your home 1) Know exactly what you want to accomplish by replacing your AC and be clear on this with every contractor you talk to. 2) Call several companies and don't be afraid to be demanding. This is a record slow year in the Residential HVAC Market, and companies are willing to fight hard to get your business. 3) If you're replacing the AC just to save money on your electric bill -- do the math carefully. If you get financing to have the AC replaced then your savings could go down the tube. And now for a long ass explanation of the wild price variance ...
Price varies by brand, the size of the AC and the company performing the install. Goodman tends to be a cheaper brand whereas Lennox and Trane are generally at the top of the residential market. York is somewhere in the middle, but I have personally found this to be a very poor product and try everything to avoid selling it.
Some companies offer very low prices, and while they offer very fast service when it comes time to install a new AC (their prices require volume sales and installation), I've found that if there are any problems -- which happens to the best of us -- then it can be difficult to get them to correct the problems. They simply don't have the profit margin to take care of it. Don't bother asking them if they will take care of any problems that pop up, because they'll assure you that they absolutely will. Simple economics doesn't allow them to, though.
Other companies charge extremely high prices by "upselling". They offer you certain features you don't need, but they are trained -- like Jedi Knights, they're trained -- to convince you to buy things like UV filtration (once the light bulb burns out they are worthless and you will never know it's broken), or HEPA filtration systems. Unless you have a serious medical condition you absolutely do not need these IAQ items (Indoor Air Quality). If you want them and can easily afford them, go nuts.
So again, shop around, know what you want and make a calculated decision. |
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RandR
Job Training
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 406
Location: CLX
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 21 Aug 2008 03:44 PM Post subject: |
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| verbal wrote: |
As far as air filters, is there a need to buy the super deluxe one I've seen at the stores? I know in cars they can add a couple of horsepower and/or better mileage. I guess, will that extra buck or two make my AC more efficient or just clean my air better? |
Pleated air filters (super deluxe filters) are supposed to have two advantages: better air filtration and longer lifespan (three months as opposed to one). They do filter air more thoroughly, but they do not ever last more than a month here in the desert. Make sure you read the label and check the rating. The label should read "MERV 7" or "MERV 8" which are ratings meant to reflect the effectiveness of an air filter. These filter air better and keep your duct system and evap coil (a chilled copper coil tubing through which air is forced through and into the duct system), but they do restrict air flow a bit. So your AC will be slightly less energy efficient with these unless you replace the filter every two weeks or something. |
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