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bfs420
Cholo Nako
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 22
  
Votes: 2
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 Posted: 19 Nov 2006 06:43 PM Post subject: |
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| superplayer wrote: | | Last thursday, an American reporter was killed while working, but of course, its OK if you are from there. |
I don't get it, what's your point? Brad Will was reporting for indymedia.org and was shot by a paramilitary assassain. He was reporting on the side of the protestors and offering a different perspective on the situation. It's a sad lost, I have some friends that knew him. This case is another reason to denounce Ulysses Ruiz and his repressive use of force. |
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superplayer
Wal-Mart Associate
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Calexico
Votes: 1
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| Posted: 19 Nov 2006 07:20 PM Post subject: |
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| I don't get it, what's your point? Brad Will was reporting for indymedia.org and was shot by a paramilitary assassain. He was reporting on the side of the protestors and offering a different perspective on the situation. It's a sad lost, I have some friends that knew him. This case is another reason to denounce Ulysses Ruiz and his repressive use of force. |
A representative from APPO appeared in the news (mexican news) on 11/16 stating that the autopsy revealed that it wasn't their bullet what killed him. He had received one bullet from the APPO side but that the bullet that killed him came from the "other side." Unbelievable.
Actually, I would support APPO if they had indeed done something good for the common people by now then. Until now, all we have is violence, grafitti on historical monuments, (which explains APPO's concern in culture), and more violence. There has been some promise in favor of the poor, but until now just words. And I don't trust promises from communists. |
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bfs420
Cholo Nako
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 22
Votes: 2
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| Posted: 19 Nov 2006 08:06 PM Post subject: |
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| superplayer wrote: | | Actually, I would support APPO if they had indeed done something good for the common people by now then. Until now, all we have is violence, grafitti on historical monuments, (which explains APPO's concern in culture), and more violence. |
Once again the APPO is adovcating non-violence. The state is inflicting violence on the people as they have being doing for many years. The people are fed up with the situation and have resorted to take to the streets.
Let me ask a question: If we staged a peaceful protest in Calexico for a better school system and the Calexico PD resorted to violence in order to stop the movement; are you telling me that you would go home and accept the repression? If california had a history of human rights abuses and the governor sent out assassains to threaten our movement; would you go home. If the state was killing people in our community; would you feel that the city, the buildings, the monuments, actually represented you? I would feel alienated and take to the streets just as the people of oaxaca.
| superplayer wrote: | | There has been some promise in favor of the poor, but until now just words. And I don't trust promises from communists. |
APPO doesn't have the power or the support to do what it wants. They are only a representative assembly in the face of massive opposition from the government, PFP, and many conservatives that think the situation is about violence. You don't trust promises from "communists" yet you believe the promises from the elite, capitalist, ruling class? The "communists" take interests of the working class into account while the elite capitalists class are only concerned with making profits. If communist ideology can't deliver or come through it's becuase of the huge opposition that does not allow communism to work.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=847209689299756503
Here is Brad Will's last video and shows him being shot. He is clearly on the side of the protestors whe gunfire rings out. The protestors are merely armed with rocks when shots are fired at them. You hear more guns shots as the people are running. |
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verbal
Cole
Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 2569
Location: C-Town
Votes: 9
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| Posted: 19 Nov 2006 08:32 PM Post subject: |
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| bfs420 wrote: | | The protestors are merely armed with rocks when shots are fired at them. You hear more guns shots as the people are running. |
It seems he will die in vain if this is what you people call a protest.
It seems this movement lacks true leadership. Either resort to violence or non-violent protest. Throwing rocks is still violence.
The worst part of this video were the people covering their faces up. Seems like terrorists to me. You're movement has to make those that do not care, care. If John Smith saw that he will feel no sympathy. Yeah, a reporter died, but for what and for who? He died for a faceless movement. |
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crazynegro
Moved to SD
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 158
Location: cal;ecia
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2006 07:31 AM Post subject: Something sounds to shaddy with bfs420 |
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Oye bfs420, I'm just curious, your (anglo, gringo, huero,) right? I just think you just might have some financial interest in Oaxaca. Or you just trying to get notice for the upcomming Noble Prize? You sound very educated by the way you post. Have you considered teaching some english to the people of Oaxaca so when they come over to the States they have a head start? Just a thought. We need people like you to recruit. Sounding more and more like a United States Marine Corps Recruiter.
Di no a la violencia, y si al amor, cerveza, bailes privados y manataralla en el disco!  |
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bfs420
Cholo Nako
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 22
Votes: 2
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2006 10:05 AM Post subject: Re: Something sounds to shaddy with bfs420 |
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| crazynegro wrote: | | Oye bfs420, I'm just curious, your (anglo, gringo, huero,) right? I just think you just might have some financial interest in Oaxaca. Or you just trying to get notice for the upcomming Noble Prize? You sound very educated by the way you post. Have you considered teaching some english to the people of Oaxaca so when they come over to the States they have a head start? Just a thought. We need people like you to recruit. Sounding more and more like a United States Marine Corps Recruiter. |
Nope; anglo, gringo; far from it. Just your ordinary mexican from Calexico. No financial/political interests, just a student working for social change. We need to build a better society so that people from Oaxaca and other parts of Mexico don't have to come to the United States. |
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locoinclx
The Door Rehab
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 855
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Votes: 5
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2006 11:31 AM Post subject: |
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| bfs420 wrote: | | I don't spend all my time on the internet so excuse me if i'm not technologically competent. |
You don’t have to be technologically competent, just ask… I asked how to do it because I wasn’t getting it the way it’s supposed to be. It’s always a good thing to ask when you don’t know…
| bfs420 wrote: | | When I say that the PRI and the PAN are in alliance, I'm refering to political and economic interests. They represent the same interests of privatizing Mexico's largest nationalized companies, PEMEX and CFE. This is why Felipe Calderon was essential to the presidency because he was openly in favor of privatization in Mexico. Calderon declared to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) that he would go through with the structural adjustment programs of privatization of PEMEX, CFE, and education. Just how the Democrats and Republicans have the same political Interests in Iraq; the PRI and the PAN are different parties but with the same interests in privitazation. |
Now you’re starting to sound like Hugo Chaves, which I don’t know why it would amaze me considering that if you’re in support of Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, you would have some fascist views. I will give you the fact that the PAN has become the ultra Republican party of Mexico. I think that in order for you to start saying that making PEMEX and the CFE private is a bad thing; you would have to live in Mexico. Just ask all the people crossing the border to fill up their gas here why don’t they do it in Mexico?? I am not preaching that the PEMEX and the CFE should go private, but I would think that by privatizing those areas, you might get a better deal at the pump and on your electricity bill. I.E. TELMEX…
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| bfs420 wrote: | Most people don't really care about politics and have no faith in the democratic process. Most people are probably on the assumption that it would not make a differnce if AMLO had won. So you can't expect the entire electorate to take to the streets and cry fraud especially since many voted against AMLO. So you suggests we merely brush aside the 3-4 million people that took to the streets and are angry at the democratic process? So we should ingnore that voice since most mexican's stayed at home watching novelas? How many people will it take? Once again, 3-4 million people are not moved be merely a hunch. I say there should be accurate recounts in order to dimiss the controversy and end the ambiguety. Only 9% of the presincts were recounted. Why was there not a full recount when millions of people were demanding for it?
http://www.narconews.com/Issue42/article2010.html
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There will forever be those types of elections, but what does Mexico do? Most Mexican’s just sit there and say “ohh well it’s the corrupt system again… things never change”. That’s the problem, there’s other ways that Mexicans can change the wheels of power. It’s called accountability. If there’s no accountability, then people are more pre-empted to become corrupt. How teaching people about the government and how it works, instead of trying to overthrow the current government… If you teach all the people of Oaxaca and the rest of Mexico, how their government works. These people can become more equip with the tools to overthrow, not just whom ever is in power, but also all the corrupt people who have power in the government. Doing so, would make Mexico a better place with less corruption and a better way of life.
By the way, the Electorate only recounted nine percent of the votes because the PRD didn’t bring forward the documents needed in order to recount other districts. In that sense, how can the PRD count in the democratic process if they can’t follow its guidelines?
Also, I know that you don’t have enough time to spend it all online, but please, if you do not want to be portrayed as a joke around here, come up with better sources when you give your side of the story. Something tells me that most people wont even touch your “Narco News” site. It’s like quoting the “Friends of the Border Patrol” when discussing Illegal Immigration.
| bfs420 wrote: | | Yes, in general we have a good democracy in the strict sense of the word. Now if the democratic process actually does work in truly representing the people; that is another question. But to stick with the topic, If we have such a great democracy, why did we have the Bush/Gore controversy? In these cases, where the race is too close to call; why are effective recounts not completed in order to give an accurate account of the true winner in order to completely discredit the controversy? What we have instead are controversial recounts that only add to the ambiguety. If we had a true democracy, we would not be talking about the bush/gore situation. Mexico as well as the U.S. has political and economic interests at stake in order to make sure that key representatives take office in order to go through with specific policies. |
Going in circles here… sorry can’t help you out on the fact that you can’t seem to understand the true meaning of Democracy.
| bfs420 wrote: | | We are organizing marches on Dec 1st in our own communities in support of Oaxaca and denouncing Felipe Calederon on the day he will be anaugurated president of Mexico. After the convention we staged a small march at the border and walked down streets in Mexicali. We made a bunch of noise and had a great experience. Hopefully it made the paper. |
Now we get to the real issue here. For most people, like other have stated in this thread, this issue with the Oaxaca Teachers, has gone from getting better wages for teachers to a referendum on the election. Basically the Oaxaca incident has become a national problem. It seems that the people who are now occupying Oaxaca have the soul purpose of morphing the problems that Oaxaca faces into the fact that their presidential candidate will not be sworn in on Dec 1st. They are using the same ploy that President Bush used to do with getting his agenda through (making everything a referendum on the “war on terror”). In so many words, how do you know if Felipe Calderon will not fix the problems that are being faced in Oaxaca? Maybe he will just let Oaxaca become its own nation, I don’t know… The only problem with the movement is that they have ventured away from the real issue and right now, the teachers of Oaxaca are still being killed, they are still being oppressed and the movement has not done anything to fix that. Just a bunch of marches and stone throwing situations that have shown through history, that in Mexico those things do not work. Why can’t you guys do something other than rant to fix the problem?
| bfs420 wrote: |
Let me ask a question: If we staged a peaceful protest in Calexico for a better school system and the Calexico PD resorted to violence in order to stop the movement; are you telling me that you would go home and accept the repression? If california had a history of human rights abuses and the governor sent out assassains to threaten our movement; would you go home. If the state was killing people in our community; would you feel that the city, the buildings, the monuments, actually represented you? I would feel alienated and take to the streets just as the people of oaxaca. |
While in college, I went to a discussion about the 65’ and the 92’ riots that occurred in LA. One of the panelists present was Edward James Olmos which most of you are familiar with. He was commenting that while the 92’ riots where going on, you could see people getting stampede over and mass hysteria through LA. He said that the cop’s weren’t doing a thing about trying to fix the situation. According to Mr. Olmos, the only thing that stopped the riot was that he picked up a broom and started to clean the street. Next thing he knew was that a lot of people had taken to the streets and started cleaning them with brooms and trash cans of sorts…
His point was to show civil disobedience, because with any other type of demonstration, someone will get hurt. You should look more into the historical aspect of civil disobedience to find out what has worked and what hasn’t worked… because the people, who are barricading themselves in Oaxaca, are basically starting to go the other way.
You see when you stop traffic on the streets and barricading yourself in front of businesses; you yourself are not harmed, nor are the people in power. It’s the people who work in those business, it’s the people need to get to work who end up getting there late and are often fired for it. For example, how can you say that it’s ok for people to loose their jobs in Oaxaca because of the lack of tourism in the state? How do you tell all those people that they lost their job for a noble cause? You can’t, because the only other thing that those people can do now is try to venture out and try to make that mad dash to the US.
| bfs420 wrote: | | If communist ideology can't deliver or come through it's becuase of the huge opposition that does not allow communism to work. |
I beg to differ… Communism was alive and well for a little over fifty years, you know in the good old USSR. I suggest you go to that part of the world and ask the people who used to live under communist rule to ask them how their life was back then… then please post it because I would like to know if they where happy with that ideology. That said, true communism wouldn’t work because there would always be someone that would want to have something more than their neighbor… That’s just the way that Humans have evolved to be. |
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crazynegro
Moved to SD
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 158
Location: cal;ecia
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2006 01:52 PM Post subject: |
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Hey locoinclx, this dude is the next Fidel Castro. He says he's from Calexico, scary freaking thought, wouldn't you say? bfs240, I'm starting to believe more and more your one of those new era "special advisers"
(Vietnam first initial US troops) or possible a Mercinary. Like I said, no mas violencia y viva el amor clandestino! |
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bfs420
Cholo Nako
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 22
Votes: 2
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| Posted: 20 Nov 2006 10:34 PM Post subject: |
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| locoinclx wrote: | | I am not preaching that the PEMEX and the CFE should go private, but I would think that by privatizing those areas, you might get a better deal at the pump and on your electricity bill. I.E. TELMEX… |
Privatizing PEMEX and CFE is a backwards move for Mexico. It's a step in the wrong direction and only removing state power to transnational coporations and U.S. interests. It might relieve pressure at the pump but in the long run it will make Mexico worst, create less social spending, and make people poorer.
| locoinclx wrote: |
If there’s no accountability, then people are more pre-empted to become corrupt. How teaching people about the government and how it works, instead of trying to overthrow the current government… If you teach all the people of Oaxaca and the rest of Mexico, how their government works. |
I have been arguing constantly that teachers and educators have been a traget for political violence because they present a threat in educating the masses. I provided you with numbers from a publication of Amnesty International proving this point. I will say it again; from 1974-1995 there have been 111 cases of human rights violations in the state of Oaxaca against teachers. (The rule of Lawlessness in Mexico: Human rights violations in the state of Oaxaca. 1996). What your arguing is the case in Oaxaca where people tried to educate the masses for accountability and the state responded with repression. So your theory has been an attempted but has failed. This is why we have the situation currently in Oaxaca.
| locoinclx wrote: | | Also, I know that you don’t have enough time to spend it all online, but please, if you do not want to be portrayed as a joke around here, come up with better sources when you give your side of the story. Something tells me that most people wont even touch your “Narco News” site. It’s like quoting the “Friends of the Border Patrol” when discussing Illegal Immigration. |
Your asking me to provide better sources when you provide me with wikipedia? Like that is a legitimate source.
| locoinclx wrote: | | For most people, like other have stated in this thread, this issue with the Oaxaca Teachers, has gone from getting better wages for teachers to a referendum on the election. Basically the Oaxaca incident has become a national problem. It seems that the people who are now occupying Oaxaca have the soul purpose of morphing the problems that Oaxaca faces into the fact that their presidential candidate will not be sworn in on Dec 1st. Why can’t you guys do something other than rant to fix the problem? |
They are related if you have not made the connection. Felipe Calderon announced to the IMF that he will privitize PEMEX, CFE, and Education. I've already said this. Privitaztion of Education will have a huge impact on poor school districts, like Oaxaca. When Felipe Calderon takes office, it will be a huge blow to the Oaxaca strike that started as a teachers strike for better funding. I can't give you a direct source for this connection becuase it's called critical thinking. It will take me too long to look up all the sources and I really don't feel like doing it. If you make the connection, this is something that the media is not going to straight up explain to you.
| locoinclx wrote: | | I beg to differ… Communism was alive and well for a little over fifty years, you know in the good old USSR. I suggest you go to that part of the world and ask the people who used to live under communist rule to ask them how their life was back then… then please post it because I would like to know if they where happy with that ideology. That said, true communism wouldn’t work because there would always be someone that would want to have something more than their neighbor… That’s just the way that Humans have evolved to be. |
Don't even get me started with Communism. Do you even know the history of Communism. Communism has never exsisted! It is only an idelogy developed by Marx. What has occured is Socialism. And socialism is not communism. Yes, the USSR gave a bad name to Socialism becuase of Stalin, but stalin did not live up to the idea created by marx and engels. Ok i'm over it, i'm not even going to start a socialist/communist rant.
| crazynegro wrote: | | this dude is the next Fidel Castro. He says he's from Calexico, scary freaking thought |
Thank You. I would rather be compared to a socialist then a fascist. Two completely polar ideas. |
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locoinclx
The Door Rehab
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 855
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Votes: 5
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| Posted: 21 Nov 2006 11:14 AM Post subject: |
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| bfs420 wrote: |
Privatizing PEMEX and CFE is a backwards move for Mexico. It's a step in the wrong direction and only removing state power to transnational coporations and U.S. interests. It might relieve pressure at the pump but in the long run it will make Mexico worst, create less social spending, and make people poorer. |
Again, I’m not saying that the privatization of PEMEX and CFE will be a good thing for Mexico, but if the current way of doing things has not worked, then Mexico should look for alternatives. The reason why the prices at the pump are high is because there has been a monopoly by the people who run PEMEX to keep prices high in order to make their wallets bigger… Maybe privatization will alleviate some of the problem that Mexico faces when it comes to Oil. You have a socialist idea and I have a capitalist idea… Though I do not get how if there is more competition for oil, that will drive up the prices of gas and therefore creating a society that will concentrate on spending less. If prices go down (IE TELMEX) people are going to be willing to spend more… But considering you’re going to keep arguing about this subject, its better to leave it that way.
| bfs420 wrote: |
I have been arguing constantly that teachers and educators have been a traget for political violence because they present a threat in educating the masses. I provided you with numbers from a publication of Amnesty International proving this point. I will say it again; from 1974-1995 there have been 111 cases of human rights violations in the state of Oaxaca against teachers. (The rule of Lawlessness in Mexico: Human rights violations in the state of Oaxaca. 1996). What your arguing is the case in Oaxaca where people tried to educate the masses for accountability and the state responded with repression. So your theory has been an attempted but has failed. This is why we have the situation currently in Oaxaca. |
I know that ever since the Republic was created there’s been corruption and oppression not just in Oaxaca but in the rest of the country. But going up in arms is not a solution. You guys keep pushing this issue there will be violence. By the way, classes have resumed in Oaxaca once again… The teachers are not willing to keep fighting because they know that it’s gone too far. The last thing you want if for people to be constantly throwing rocks at policemen with guns. It will only be a matter of time before they start fighting back…
| bfs420 wrote: | | locoinclx wrote: | | Also, I know that you don’t have enough time to spend it all online, but please, if you do not want to be portrayed as a joke around here, come up with better sources when you give your side of the story. Something tells me that most people wont even touch your “Narco News” site. It’s like quoting the “Friends of the Border Patrol” when discussing Illegal Immigration. |
Your asking me to provide better sources when you provide me with wikipedia? Like that is a legitimate source. |
Yes it is a more legitimate source than “Narco News”. By the way I find it extremely ironic that you are here discussing the oppression of the Mexican people while quoting websites that in some ways are worshiping the oppressors. I think anyone would agree that the biggest oppressors in Mexico are the “Narcos”. So yes my quotations are more legitimate than yours, considering you often state things with out backing them up.
| bfs420 wrote: | | They are related if you have not made the connection. Felipe Calderon announced to the IMF that he will privitize PEMEX, CFE, and Education. I've already said this. Privitaztion of Education will have a huge impact on poor school districts, like Oaxaca. When Felipe Calderon takes office, it will be a huge blow to the Oaxaca strike that started as a teachers strike for better funding. I can't give you a direct source for this connection becuase it's called critical thinking. It will take me too long to look up all the sources and I really don't feel like doing it. If you make the connection, this is something that the media is not going to straight up explain to you. |
I don’t think Felipe Calderon has the guts to privatize Education. The connection between your grassroots effort to link the Teachers and the Election falls flat on its face. One thing is the oppression of Oaxaca and another is the Election of Felipe Calderon. If you think that Mexicans have been oppressed by the election of Felipe Calderon I would say you’re only half right. You keep forgetting that the other half of Mexico voted for Felipe Calderon. If these events would have been just like the events of 1988, I would have completely agreed with you. But they weren’t, the election was so close that if it would have gone either way, you would still be ranting about it here.
By the way, it deeply amazes me how Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador could get up on a stage in the middle of the Zocalo and declared himself president of Mexico. I don’t think that anyone should make a mockery of Mexico… He is trying to promote himself as the next leader of the modern Mexican Revolution while forgetting that the party that emerged from the last revolution just won the election.
| bfs420 wrote: | | Don't even get me started with Communism. Do you even know the history of Communism. Communism has never exsisted! It is only an idelogy developed by Marx. What has occured is Socialism. And socialism is not communism. Yes, the USSR gave a bad name to Socialism becuase of Stalin, but stalin did not live up to the idea created by marx and engels. Ok i'm over it, i'm not even going to start a socialist/communist rant. |
Thanks for the third grade notion of Communism and Socialism. No true political ideologies have ever existed. The modern world uses references to every political ideology because they have been the closest ones to that specific political ideology, hence Communism in the USSR and democracy in the US. You see, true democracy would never be able to exist in this world because that would mean that every citizen of each and every country would show up in and rule their own countries. In the US like in many other “democratic” countries around the world, we “appoint” representatives to do that specific job/s. Communism’s belief was to have everyone as equals, they would get the same exact car, same exact house, same exact everything, in which would not create jealousy and other factors that would bring the emergence of Capitalism. The only difference between Socialism and Communism is that Communism deals with a Nation/State and Socialism deals with small segments of the population governing them selves… This is why most people tend to go the Socialist route. But you see, the minute you have a Nation/State involved in a socialist government, that nation state will become a Communist state. Which in my opinion, heck if it has worked for Cuba for 60 years, why wouldn’t it work for Mexico right?
El Christ: Now I know what you mean about bad spelling and how it deteriorates the validity of the point you’re trying to prove. |
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