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bfs420
Cholo Nako
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 22
  
Votes: 2
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 Posted: 16 Nov 2006 10:42 AM Post subject: |
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| Civil disobedience. Gandhi, ML King, Caesar Chavez all were successful |
Even Martin L. King who was a strict advocate for non-violent protest was assassinated. How much oppression can people take before we follow the state’s use of violence and retaliate? |
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chuco boy
Dishonorable Discharge
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 369
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 16 Nov 2006 12:48 PM Post subject: MLK |
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MLK would have always condoned violence-his assassination like those of others were the result of a crazy white dude.
All serial killers and assassins are primarly white dudes- I think we had Juan Corona and Richard Ramirez-Night Stalker as our Mexican serial killers. Mexico needs to import more white people then you can have your revolution. You can hire mercenaries. |
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bfs420
Cholo Nako
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 22
Votes: 2
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| Posted: 16 Nov 2006 01:57 PM Post subject: |
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[img]Mexico needs to import more white people then you can have your revolution. You can hire mercenaries.[/img]
Well I don't think the people of Oaxaca are trying to create an armed revloution. The APPO is maintaing a platform of non-violence. If the movement resorts to armed mercanaries to combat the paramilitary, plain clothes officers then it will only give the PAN and Ulysses Ruiz an exuse to end the struggle with full military force. I don't think the APPO wants a massacre on their hands. So I agree with the APPO in that they cannot resort to armed resistance in order to meet thier demands |
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locoinclx
The Door Rehab
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 855
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Votes: 5
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| Posted: 16 Nov 2006 05:34 PM Post subject: |
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| bfs420 wrote: | | Well I don't think the people of Oaxaca are trying to create an armed revloution. The APPO is maintaing a platform of non-violence. If the movement resorts to armed mercanaries to combat the paramilitary, plain clothes officers then it will only give the PAN and Ulysses Ruiz an exuse to end the struggle with full military force. I don't think the APPO wants a massacre on their hands. So I agree with the APPO in that they cannot resort to armed resistance in order to meet thier demands |
Your little flyer is demanding a revolution. These are the problems that can send the country into a never ending spiral straight into the revolution. People keep saying that the PAN is corrupt, that the PRI is corrupt, and that the PRD is corrupt… Yet without those parties there can’t be a democratic process. That democratic process is being threatened by the APPO which had taken over the city of Oaxaca for a period of time.
The conflict in Oaxaca is out of the hands of the people of Oaxaca. There are way too many people who have come from the outside and are putting their “two cents” towards just making it a national crisis. It only takes one little insignificant incident for the city, state and even nation to explode in riots. i.e. the Los Angeles Riots
Let’s not forget that if some of the events that have occurred in Oaxaca and Mexico D.F. come to Mexicali, Calexico economy would go straight to hell. But the way things are looking, maybe you should start buying real estate in Holtville… |
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superplayer
Wal-Mart Associate
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Calexico
Votes: 1
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2006 12:34 AM Post subject: |
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| locoinclx wrote: |
Let’s not forget that if some of the events that have occurred in Oaxaca and Mexico D.F. come to Mexicali, Calexico economy would go straight to hell. But the way things are looking, maybe you should start buying real estate in Holtville… |
This will not extend to Mexicali because the north does not have the far-left extremists of the south, such as in Oaxaca and D.F. and other regions, regions of people who do not know nothing but complain, protest, and complain again. Oaxaca is full of racism, racism in its communist people who use graffiti to intimidate tourists and violence to kill them if they are foreigners. If something happens to them, it's racism, if they do something wrong, then it's OK.
The following website of the APPO clearly shows its communist style of badges and protests, and a mob of useless monkeys and clowns who know nothing but to be mad at the world for they being poor and useless. www.asambleapopulardeoaxaca.com Notice in this website there is a scheduled protest against Felipe Calderon. What are they protesting for? The poor guy hasn't even been president yet. Does anybody know what are they fighting for? |
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superplayer
Wal-Mart Associate
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Calexico
Votes: 1
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2006 12:48 AM Post subject: |
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| egb wrote: | | I too agree that people must not be opressed and that their voices must be heard, but I am not sure if volience is the best answer. Unfornuntaly, because I will be out of town, I cannot attend this event, but I think that people must come together and see what can be done and see how we can support those who are suffering and opressed without the use of volience... |
These organizations do a great job making people believe that they have been oppressed. First they organize long-term barricades in downtown D.F and downtown Oaxaca, with protesters throwing rocks and even weapons at innocent bystanders, business, and police. And when police finally acts, they demand that they have been oppressed.
Of course, a lot of people buy it that they have been oppressed. Oaxaca is a such a poor region that teachers there should be thankful for having a salary instead of not working and leaving the children unattended. The goals of the APPO is clearly political and not for the good of the people.
It's really sad that so many people fall into these tricks just upon the fact that they are poor. |
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bfs420
Cholo Nako
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Posts: 22
Votes: 2
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2006 02:22 AM Post subject: |
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| Your little flyer is demanding a revolution. |
First, let’s get something straight. This is not my flyer and this is not my revolution. I am merely advocating in support of the Fourth International of Mexicali as well as the people of Oaxaca. I am in support of our brothers and sisters in Mexico in their struggle for justice.
| People keep saying that the PAN is corrupt, that the PRI is corrupt, and that the PRD is corrupt… Yet without those parties there can’t be a democratic process. That democratic process is being threatened by the APPO |
There is no democracy in Mexico! This is why millions of people took to the streets when Felipe Calderon was fraudulently elected. The PRI is in alliance with the PAN. They have the same political interests. APPO is providing a voice for the working class which the so called “democracy” failed to address. If all democracy means is the right to vote for a candidate that will represent the people, the democratic process failed, Felipe Calderon was handed the presidency, and completely violated the rules of Democracy. The people’s voice was ignored and APPO is providing that space to allow the voice of the people to shine through.
| This will not extend to Mexicali because the north does not have the far-left extremists of the south |
This is true; Northern Mexico is very conservative and disconnected from the south.
| Oaxaca is full of racism, racism in its communist people who use graffiti to intimidate tourists and violence to kill them if they are foreigners. If something happens to them, it's racism, if they do something wrong, then it's OK. |
Now you’re just making stuff up. You’re scape-goating the whole situation on the protestors as the root of the problem and not looking at the bigger issues.
| What are they protesting for? The poor guy hasn't even been president yet. Does anybody know what are they fighting for? |
Felipe Calderon was fraudulently elected president! He was placed in power because he will secure the interests of the ruling class. He spoke to the IMF, the International Monetary Fund in charge of imposing neo-liberal policies, and announced that he will support the structural adjustment programs including the privatization of PEMEX, privatization of the national electrical company CFE, get rid of pensions, and privatize education in Mexico. This means less money, less jobs, and closure of schools in the poor sectors of Mexico, including Oaxaca. This affects the Teachers directly which was the start of this whole mess. Teachers wanted better funding and Felipe Calderon is going privatize education. APPO states that they are against Privatization which directly affects the poor school system of Oaxaca.
These organizations do a great job making people believe that they have been oppressed. First they organize long-term barricades in downtown D.F and downtown Oaxaca, with protesters throwing rocks and even weapons at innocent bystanders, business, and police. And when police finally acts, they demand that they have been oppressed.
Of course, a lot of people buy it that they have been oppressed. Oaxaca is a such a poor region that teachers there should be thankful for having a salary instead of not working and leaving the children unattended. The goals of the APPO is clearly political and not for the good of the people.
It's really sad that so many people fall into these tricks just upon the fact that they are poor. |
I’m staring at a book right now titled “The Rule of Lawlessness in Mexico: Human Rights Violations in the State of Oaxaca” which is a publication of Amnesty International. It states that from 1974-1995 there were 111 reported cases of human rights violations against teachers in Oaxaca. These people were murdered, tortured, rapped, and violently beaten. These are only the reported cases and do not include the cases that were dismissed by the state, lost, unreported, and the many disappeared. Global Exchange lists 150 murdered teachers since 1970. This higher number probably takes account of the disappeared and dismissed cases. Get your facts straight before generalizing about this situation in Oaxaca.
| The goals of the APPO is clearly political and not for the good of the people. |
And just to clear something about the APPO. APPO was created 3 days after protestors occupied the City of Oaxaca. The occupation of the city and the creation of APPO were in response to state repression on the teacher’s strike of SNTE. Instead of Ulysis Ruiz working to meet the basic demands of higher wages and better funding; he sent in police which arrested people, tortured people in clandestine locations, and severely beat protesters. APPO was formed to counter these clear violations of human rights to provide a representative force which the state of Mexico clearly failed to address. Community organization in an unrepresentative democracy. The PRI-PAN alliance is definetly not good for the people of Oaxaca and the working class of Mexico. Maybe it's good for the creamers in Mexicali who do busy with the U.S. but defitenly not good for the majority of the people of Mexico.
Why the use of force? So the state could privatize education when Felipe Calderon takes power. The IMF at it’s best. |
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chuco boy
Dishonorable Discharge
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 369
Votes: 4
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2006 07:45 AM Post subject: Good Intentions |
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Let's face the facts about Mexico: It's always been oppresive towards poor people and the Indians. No economic competition-government protects wealthy businesses- sort of like George W/Cheney- A country rich in resources but poor management and governance. Heck if I was hungry with no future-I would be protesting too.
Oaxaca is not an isolated incident. All those Mexicans crossing the desert are hungry and they are from all over Mexico. |
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elchrist
See-thru Afro
Joined: 09 Oct 2002
Posts: 7668
Location: Calecia.com
Votes: 14
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2006 08:49 AM Post subject: Corrupted Morals |
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Isn't it ironic how during the 70+ years of PRI in power, the PAN accused them of corruption? Now the PAN has been in power for only 6 years and they are the ones being accused of the same corruption.
If and when the PRD takes power, will they be accused of the same? |
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superplayer
Wal-Mart Associate
Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Calexico
Votes: 1
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| Posted: 17 Nov 2006 09:31 AM Post subject: |
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| I’m staring at a book right now titled “The Rule of Lawlessness in Mexico: Human Rights Violations in the State of Oaxaca” which is a publication of Amnesty International. It states that from 1974-1995 there were 111 reported cases of human rights violations against teachers in Oaxaca. These people were murdered, tortured, rapped, and violently beaten. These are only the reported cases and do not include the cases that were dismissed by the state, lost, unreported, and the many disappeared. Global Exchange lists 150 murdered teachers since 1970. This higher number probably takes account of the disappeared and dismissed cases. Get your facts straight before generalizing about this situation in Oaxaca. |
We got to see who is really generalizing. Everybody knows that there has always been oppression towards the ethnic communities in Oaxaca, Chiapas, and the like... I am not questioning that. But nobody can deny that APPO is clearly one-sided. Is it really struggling for the good of the people in general? Shit no, it only represents a particular group with its certian red political (cough, PRD, cough).
Let's face something, Southern Mexico is a region in which people (ordinary people in general) simply don't read, not even newspapers because people only take a quick glance at newspapers and don't really read. In other words, they lack a big degree of knowledge, such as social sicence. Now every person that you find on the street can guarantee that AMLO won the election and that the PAN lost. Yeah right, overnight they were enlightened, sure. |
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